While you are reading think of questions to ask your classmates. I'm hoping this will get a lot of the factual stuff out of the way before our Socratic seminar. I'd like everyone to post at least once before Monday. I'll start!
Why would Kesey use a sex addicted gambler as a Christ symbol?
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my question is:
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of Kesey's book title - One Flew Over The Cuckoo Nest? (if there is one).
I think that Kesey would use a sex addicted gambler as a Christ symbol to show that there are many different types of heroes in the world.
ReplyDeleteWhen kesey makes a reference to a "machine" I believe it goes far beyond saying our society is a machine, but that our society relies on machines to perform simple tasks that humans used to do. If you get what i mean. je t'aime Madame Ware. ;)
ReplyDeleteI think Kesey uses a sex addicted gambler as a Christ symbol to show that although man may seem evil on the surface, it is in their actions and sacrifices for others that prove their true goodness. There are parallels and extreme differences between McMurphy and Christ but their ultimate descisions prove that both men are great.
ReplyDeleteBut why was everyone doubting his reasons for being so selfless? Was Big Nurse getting to the patients and just making it seem like McMurphy was cheating them all? I think he wasn't against making some money as an added bonus, but I can't see why the patients would question him if he was trying to help.
ReplyDeleteWhat is McMurphy's ultimate goal at the ward? I understand he was trying to get out of the work farm, so he did crazy things to ensure him a place in the mental ward at the hospital. McMurphy must still have an ultimate goal in what he is doing now, he has already accomplished the process of entering into the hospital, what does he want now?
ReplyDeleteMy question is: Why if the author is trying to make references to Jesus Christ and Christianity throughout his book does he suddenly have his character Harding reference Allah on page 251? This remark seems out of place.
ReplyDeleteKesey uses a sex-addicted gambler as a christ symbol because of the setting of a mental hospital. Nobody as pious as christ would pretend to be mentally insane. If mcmurphy acted exactly as christ did, nurse ratched would have no problem with him, even if she though he was delusional.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Alison's question, I believe that after McMurphy ensured himself a place in the hospital, he enjoyed becoming somewhat of a hero among the patients and proving to them that it is possible to slowly start to change the way society is. Although The Big Nurse silences him in the end, McMurphy shows everyone that winning the small battles can sometimes be more effective then winning the whole war.
ReplyDeleteWhy do the majority of the patients in the ward decide that it is okay to leave at the end of the novel? Before, many wanted to be in the hospital voluntarily because they were insecure with the "outside". Even though they all went through a big change, are they really ready to go out into the real world?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Connor's question, I think the patients left the hospital in the end to finish what McMurphy had started and completely eliminate Big Nurse's power. If McMurphy had been silenced and the other men had done nothing about it then the nurse would have won the battle between them. Although they may not have been completely ready to enter society, the patients were showing the nurse that she did not have power over them.
ReplyDeleteI think that the similarities between McMurphy and Christ are definitely there, especially the sacrifices for others, but I don't think that McMurphy was Christ in the book. He may have symbolized some of the ideas that Christ represented, but they are also so different.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Christina's question about the title, I have the same question. It didn't make sense to me.
Oh and to Connor: I agree with that, because people don't change so quickly. I agree that McMurphy pulled them out of the fog, so to speak, but they would always have a little bit of the insecurity that they had before McMurphy. McMurphy may have changed their views, but he didn't change how people on the outside will act towards them.
I'm confused about how Bromden is suddenly able to converse with the people around him. Does it have to do with McMurphy promising to make him stong again? Why don't the other patients and the Big Nurse find it odd that Bromden isn't actually deaf and dumb?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Nicoles comment about the patients exiting the hospital, i agree that it doesnt change how others will act toward the patients but i do think that they have maybe learned to deal with peoples reactions toward them.
ReplyDeleteAnd in response to alison's question i beleive McMurphy's goal at the begining was just to simply make a stir and mess with the system. But when Mcmurphy realized the other patients were mostly there volentarilly i beleive his goal changed to fully taking the power away from the nurse and to save the patients from the hospital and her unfair power.
In response to the questions about the Title "One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest," I think that it symbolizes the crazyness in all of us. This story is Bromden's point of view and he showed us a time when his gradma used to sing a song to him; one of the lines was "One flew over the cookoo's nest" meaning that the bird was different. It made a mark in his mind because he was different.
ReplyDeleteI dont know how Bromden was able to suffocate the man that brought him so far out of himself though. I know he did it for the best but it boggles my mind where that great mental strength came from!
I think that Kesey uses a sex addicted gambler as a Christ symbol because Jesus sacrificed himself. He consorted with prostitutes and taught his followers to have faith, and to see the benefits in difficult situations. Ultimately he killed himself to save his people, just like McMurphy did everything in his power to tear down the Nurse. He did it to give the people relying on him freedom, even when all he wanted to do was quit. "It was our need that was making him push himself slowly up" (267).
ReplyDeleteI personally believe that Kesey chose to use a sex addicted gambler as a Christ symbol for a few reasons. To touch on what a few other people have said, some similarities definitely exist, like how McMurphy ultimately sacrificed himself for the good of the other patients, similar to how Jesus sacrificed himself. To dig deeper into that idea, I think that Kesey did this because Jesus is so well known. Because Jesus is such an iconic figure; someone most people know of and millions worship, Kesey drew parallels between Jesus and McMurphy to make McMurphy someone that readers could understand better. Personally, once I realized that Kesey was marking the similarities between Jesus and McMurphy, I found it easier to understand McMurphy’s motives.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Victoria's question, Bromden smothering McMurphy was really a sort of a tribute, dignifying McMurphy. By euthanizing him, Bromden allows McMurphy to become an eternal symbol of rebellion against the power of the ward, rather than Taber, who was lobotomized and became an example to the patients not to act out.
ReplyDeleteLike we said in class, the mental hospital represents a twisted version of our own society. In our society, most people believe in a greater being such as God. Therefore, I think that Kesey uses McMurphy as a Christ symbol because the author needed a way to represent God that made sense in the context of the story and allowed us to view society in a different way. The fact that a sex addicted gambler wants to help the patients in an insane asylum proves that anyone can be like Christ. So, we shouldn’t be judgmental of certain people in our society because everyone has the ability to change and be a good person.
ReplyDeleteIn responce to Christina's question about the title -One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, I think it's refering to McMurphy. McMurphy was the one person who "flew" over the mental hospital (cuckoo's nest) and made such a significant inpact on the men there. He showed them how to overcome their illnesses by destroying the power of the combign and enabling them to return into society.
ReplyDeleteTo touch on what Vicky said about Bromden, I feel as though he got the mental strength from McMurphy. On pages 186-190 when the Cheif talks to McMurphy about not feeling mentally "big", McMurphy has a plan to get the Cheif back to "full size". However, by turning McMurphy into a vegetable, the nurse in a way "shrunk" him. Suffocating him was the Cheifs way of restoring McMurphy's size, and setting him free, just as McMurphy did for him and the other patients.
In response to Julia's question,I think the reason that nobody finds it odd that Bromden isnt deaf and dumb is because of how he camouflages himself in the enviroment of the asylum. He almost always keeps to himself and for years on end all he does everyday is sweep floors. This causes the staff to trust his presense as they feel that he is to dumb to understand what they are talking about, let alone betray them.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the question "What is the significance of the title?", I believe that One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest refers to McMurphy and the mental hospital as a whole. McMurphy represents the bird that flew over the cuckoo's nest, stirring up the entire hospital, or nest. When McMurphy disturbs the hospital, he causes a chain reaction that ends in upsetting the entire balance of the place. The significance of the title relates to society. In today's society, people think that those who are different need to be silenced; otherwise, they will "ruin" how far we have come. That is why McMurphy is silenced in the novel. Our society cannot deal with anyone who is too different.
ReplyDeleteWow. This is a little overwhelming, but certainly a good conversation. I hope you can use some of these ideas to start the Socratic seminar.
ReplyDeleteI do have to ask, is it McMurphy or Bromden that "flies over the cuckoo's nest"?
Why do you think the story is told from the point of view of such a passive character?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Julia's question, the ward was never given any reason to doubt the deaf and dumb characteristics of bromdon. He never used the information he overheard to plot against the staff. He passivly blends in to the persona of adeaf and dumb person
ReplyDeleteResponse to "Why would Kesey use a sex addicted gambler as a Christ symbol?"
ReplyDeleteI think Kesey used McMurphy as a Christ symbol because he has dominance over the other men on the ward since he has experienced much more in his life. McMurphy not only teaches the men to be brave and stand up for themselves, but opens them up to new experiences and different ways of looking at life. During their "party" on the Big Nurse's ward, McMurphy makes Bromden realize that "maybe the Combine wasn't all-powerful" (255). Throughout the story McMurphy acts as the mens' strength when they cannot stand up for themselves. By the end of the story when he sacrifices himself, the men are no longer "rabbits" and carry on his bravery.
I also was confused about Bromden all of a sudden talking with people. My question is; Is Bromden talking in front of the patients and not the staff, or both?
ReplyDelete